WorldofGood.com, an eBay Community: WorldofGood.com Feedback …

Indochine Natural 87 posts since
Feb 12, 2008

Reply 1. Re: WorldofGood.com Feedback Mar 6, 2008 8:25 PM

Hi,

Just a quick comment/observation. We are a totally independent fair trade company in Viet Nam working with the poorest of the poor (farmers and their families) producing a range of 100% natural skin care products. The requirement to have an ebay business account to become involved in trade through Project Good is a MAJOR obstacle for us as ebay business accounts are not available in Viet Nam. Interestingly enough, this limitation by ebay applies to most developing countries. Therefore, the question in our mind is who are you hoping to attract as traders if this limitation exists..... it certainly could not be independent fair traders such as ourselves? Yes, if we were linked with an international NGO it would be a lot easier as we could channel fundng through their offshore ebay account.

Ms. Le Thanh Thuy, Chairperson
Dr. Mike Thair, Director

Indochine Natural Co. Ltd.

Ha Noi, Viet Nam

felice_worldofgood 17 posts since
Dec 12, 2007

Reply 2. Re: WorldofGood.com Feedback Mar 21, 2008 3:29 PM

in response to: Indochine Natural

Hi Indochine Natural,

Welcome to the WorldofGood.com Community! We are excited that you have joined to share your story with the world. And while there are often constraints regarding eBay and Paypal accounts in several countries, we look forward to working with you to get your business started on the Marketplace. We are implementing several programs to facilitate the sale of artisan goods from throughout the world. You can learn more about how to prepare to sell on the marketplace by visiting http://content.worldofgood.ebay.com/ns/SellOverview.html.

Best,
Felice
WorldofGood.com

Indochine Natural 87 posts since
Feb 12, 2008

Reply 3. Re: WorldofGood.com Feedback Mar 21, 2008 6:06 PM

in response to: felice_worldofgood

Thanks Felice.

Of course we have gone through the resources you suggest and hit the brick walls we have mentioned, so basically it is a no-go. Therefore the fact remains, small independent fair traders located in developing countries are excluded. It is as simple as that.

Trillium Artisans 11 posts since
Dec 26, 2007

Reply 4. Re: WorldofGood.com Feedback Mar 26, 2008 12:01 PM

in response to: Indochine Natural

Hi Indochine Natural - Just reading your comments, and I'm not familiar with international fair trade at all as we our funded solely to work with craftspeople in our city, but there's got to be a way around this, right? Even a trusted friend or family member in a ebay/paypal-allowed country who'd be willing to run the sales etc. through their account might work? A fiscal sponsor of sorts - I think normally there's a small percentage charged for this sort of service. Just trying to brainstorm out of the box....

And in convincing someone to provide this service, it'd be interesting to address why the brick wall is in place in the first place......it'd be interesting to put together a full pitch to a foundation or international bank or some other potential partner...

I'm sure you'll find a way around this, as you didn't get as far as you have by letting walls stop you - let us know how it goes!

Best wishes on this!

Indochine Natural 87 posts since
Feb 12, 2008

Reply 5. Re: WorldofGood.com Feedback Mar 27, 2008 4:48 PM

in response to: Trillium Artisans

Thanks for your suggestion. If we were a hobbyist or similar, the suggestion you have made would be fine. However, as a registered business in Viet Nam we need to be audited annually and follow certain laws, and the suggestions you have made of working through some third party are simply not viable and in fact would be against the law. Internationally, many governments have measures in place to reduce money laundering, that is why international transactions must be very clean and simple, and above al transparent.

atanasia.robles2 23 posts since
Apr 5, 2008

Reply 6. exclusion of 3rd world artisan producers from the market Apr 5, 2008 8:28 PM

in response to: Indochine Natural

You are quite correct. Independent Third World artisans and producers are systematically excluded from benefiting from World of Good and Fair Trade programs. If you want to gain access to the market, you must be sponsored by someone on the inside. If you are really desperate, try begging them; however this does not usually work either.

atanasia.robles2 23 posts since
Apr 5, 2008

Reply 7. Re: exclusion of 3rd world artisan producers from the market Apr 5, 2008 8:46 PM

in response to: atanasia.robles2

Hi Indochine Natural - Just reading your comments, and I'm not familiar with international fair trade at all as we our funded solely to work with craftspeople in our city, but there's got to be a way around this, right? Even a trusted friend or family member in a ebay/paypal-allowed country who'd be willing to run the sales etc. through their account might work? A fiscal sponsor of sorts - I think normally there's a small percentage charged for this sort of service. Just trying to brainstorm out of the box....

Of course, the opportunity to sell direct to the market is the prerogative of those who qualify for EBay accounts. people do this all the time. It is called the importing business. But the 3W artisan/producers
are explicitly and permanently excluded by regulation from being able to sell their product advantageously.

A USA resident providing such payments collection service as suggested in one of the previous posts,
whether in his or her own name or as a commission business or as a service to producers in the South
would be in a position where income had been deposited but it would be impossible to deduct expenses
because production expenses ocurring in Vietnam or elsewhere in the 3W would not be accepted by the
USA tax authorities; as such, the amount of $ this agent received would be taxable as if it were all profit.

And in convincing someone to provide this service, it'd be interesting to address why the brick wall is in place in the first place......it'd be interesting to put together a full pitch to a foundation or international bank or some other potential partner...

This one is a sacrosanct barrier to entry and no NGO or bank will touch it with a ten foot pole or even attempt to understand what you are talking about, becasue they are truly not interested in this also dont want to know

Indochine Natural 87 posts since
Feb 12, 2008

Reply 8. Re: exclusion of 3rd world artisan producers from the market Apr 6, 2008 1:46 AM

in response to: atanasia.robles2

Yes Atanasia, 100% agreed...... and it is called FAIR TRADE?

Are you the only person in the world who has "got it"???

Lots of lovely thoughts/wishes flowing around here from many others, but few are actually seeing things from the perspective of a small independent fair trade company actually located in a developing country. Those who source from developing countries and sell fair trade products in developed countries see things quite differently.

For us as, a small independent fair trade company actually located in a developing country, the word FRUSTRATION is inadequate. But, for us our associates/staff and their families come first, so we will battle on regardless. Roll on the challenges, they just make us stronger!!!!

atanasia.robles2 23 posts since
Apr 5, 2008

Reply 9. Re: exclusion of 3rd world artisan producers from the market Apr 7, 2008 5:34 PM

in response to: Indochine Natural

Are you the only person in the world who has "got it"???

Probably.

Modern cosmopolitan folks tend to think of things in terms of a commercial
transactional process, (i.e. buying and selling and realizing marginal profits).
They dont create or design products, nor do they do battle with raw materials.
They buy what they are convinced they can sell at a profit and thats about it.
It is not their fault they do not have the faintest idea what you or i talk about.
Lots of lovely thoughts/wishes flowing around here from many others, but few are actually seeing things from the perspective of a small independent fair trade company actually located in a developing country. Those who source from developing countries and sell fair trade products in developed countries see things quite differently.

Nobody is going to see things from the perspective of the artisans
except other artisans. And, of course, we will see it all too clearly!

For us as, a small independent fair trade company actually located in a developing country, the word FRUSTRATION is inadequate. welcome to the club But, for us our associates/staff and their families
come first, so we will battle on regardless. Roll on the challenges, they just make us stronger!!!!

Bravo! this is the only attitude to take; it will save you time and grief
if you take my advice and give up hope of receiving any help or relief.

Indochine Natural 87 posts since
Feb 12, 2008

Reply 10. Re: exclusion of 3rd world artisan producers from the market Apr 7, 2008 6:28 PM

in response to: atanasia.robles2

We made a decision from the beginning to be 100% independent and not seek help or relief. We have been given this advice many times. Another company we know of was having similar frustrations in joining IFAT and their conclusion was that the annual fees could support a couple of kids in school for a year, and that's exactly what they did!!!

In taking an interest in "worlofgood.com" we were not seeking help, just an opportunity to market our products. On the surface the concept looks good, and we were VERY excited about it. However scratch below the surface and we as an independent company in a developing country are excluded. So, just another opportunity for the Big Boys, as far as we can see..... but would love to be proved wrong!!!!

atanasia.robles2 23 posts since
Apr 5, 2008

Reply 11. Re: exclusion of 3rd world artisan producers from the market Apr 8, 2008 11:03 PM

in response to: Indochine Natural

We made a decision from the beginning to be 100% independent and not seek help or relief. We have been given this advice many times. Another company we know of was having similar frustrations in joining IFAT and their conclusion was that the annual fees could support a couple of kids in school for a year, and that's exactly what they did!!!

It is a poignant fact that village-based artisans are not part of Fair Trade.
Fair Trade is a commercial financial society of product vendors and retailers

In taking an interest in "worlofgood.com" we were not seeking help, just an opportunity to market our products. On the surface the concept looks good, and we were VERY excited about it. However scratch below the surface and we as an independent company in a developing country are excluded. So, just another opportunity for the Big Boys, as far as we can see..... but would love to be proved wrong!!!!

It is good that you have brought this out. I am sure that if there were any consideration
whatsoever given for the independent craftspeople someone will post in this thread soon.

Indochine Natural 87 posts since
Feb 12, 2008

Reply 12. Re: exclusion of 3rd world artisan producers from the market Apr 9, 2008 3:15 AM

in response to: atanasia.robles2

Through our Director, Dr. Mike Thair, he has raised these issues directly with one of the organizers of this ebay initiative, and not much as resulted from this approach. They are very aware of the issues.

Indochine Natural 87 posts since
Feb 12, 2008

Reply 13. Re: exclusion of 3rd world artisan producers from the market Apr 9, 2008 3:21 AM

in response to: Indochine Natural

I should also mention, for transparency, that Dr. Thair, as well as being our Director (resident in Viet Nam) is a shareholder in our company. He has lived most of his life in SE Asia, and has more than 20 years experience in development work as a senior consultant for many organization in development including the World Bank, Asian Development Bank, The European Union, USAID, and numerous NGOs and SE Asian Governments. Therefore, hopefully we can make some positive contributions to the issues raised.

atanasia.robles2 23 posts since
Apr 5, 2008

Reply 14. Re: exclusion of 3rd world artisan producers from the market Apr 15, 2008 10:03 PM

in response to: Indochine Natural

Re: exclusion of 3rd world artisan producers from the market Apr 9, 2008

Through our Director, Dr. Mike Thair, he has raised these issues directly with one of the organizers of this ebay initiative, and not much as resulted from this approach. They are very aware of the issues.

Of course they are very aware of these issues. This forum is closely monitored,
so the continuing silence in response to the questions you have posted says a lot.

WorldofGood.com Feedback

And in convincing someone to provide this service, it'd be interesting to address why the brick wall is in place in the first place......it'd be interesting to put together a full pitch to a foundation or international bank or some other potential partner...

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